Friday, May 22, 2009

About This Alleged Terrorist Plot in New York

For the record, I don't think these folks were as dangerous as the local gangbangers in the neighborhood.

From The NYTimes:
N.Y. Bomb Plot Suspects Acted Alone, Police Say
JAVIER C. HERNANDEZ and SEWELL CHAN
Published: May 21, 2009


The four men arrested Wednesday night in what the authorities said was a plot to bomb two synagogues in the Bronx and shoot down military planes at an Air National Guard base in Newburgh, N.Y. were petty criminals who appeared to be acting alone, not in concert with any terrorist organization, the New York City police commissioner said Thursday.

The men were arrested in an elaborate sting operation at around 9 p.m. on Wednesday after planting what they believed to be bombs in cars outside the Riverdale Temple, a Reform synagogue, and the nearby Riverdale Jewish Center, an Orthodox synagogue. Once the explosives were planted, the men planned to drive to the National Guard base to shoot down military aircraft with a Stinger surface-to-air missile while detonating the bombs with a remote device.

The men did not know that the bombs, obtained with the help of an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, were fake, and that the missile was incapable of being fired.

.....................................................................................

At the Masjid al-Ikhlas mosque in Newburgh where the men first met the F.B.I. informant, they were not considered devoted members, said an imam at the mosque, Salahuddin Mustafa. He also said that the man he believes was the informant showed up about two years ago and started inviting people to meals, where he would talk about jihad and violence. The imam and others believed the man was a government agent and steered clear of him, he said, but Mr. Cromitie apparently took the bait.

An assistant imam at the mosque, Hamin Rashada, said that another one of the four men, Mr. Payen, seemed disturbed. Mr. Payen often talked in circles, showed signs of paranoia and kept bottles of urine in a messy apartment.

“He has some very serious psychological problems,” Mr. Rashada said.


You can read the rest of the article at the link above.

Now, call me cynical. Call me a doubter. Call me a tinfoil hat wearer.

But, don't call me on that jury because I wouldn't vote to convict.

All the folks there at the mosque sniffed them out right away, so they zoom in on the guy who has psychological problems?

Um, ok.

Prove to me that they got their hands on those weapons. I don't believe it.
Where's the money for the missiles and explosives come from....you know no ex-cons got that kind of money.

it takes MONEY to be in terrorism, and it takes educated folks. Educated folks for bombs, etc. Sorry,you will not find a Brotha or Sista with the education needed to make a good bomb, wasting it on some terrorist cause. And, we simply don't have the funds.

Where would our Black terrorists be getting their money? I keep on asking that.

This is a bogus case with folks not smart enough to know their explosives...and America's supposed to feel SAFER because of this bogusness?

Whatever.

It's not that I don't believe that Black folk couldn't become jihadists. It's just that the ones they've put forth as 'plotters', first in Miami and in this case---I'm not hunting this dog. The government will have to do better. While funds were wasted on this 'operative', I'm sure there are REAL cells out there, NOT funded by government informants trying to entrap, that are going about their business.

3 comments:

The Angry Independent said...

There are all sorts of problems with this statement. I won't cover them all...

Why do you refer to these clowns as "ours"? Please don't attach them to me. :) I don't think Blacks or any Americans would or should claim these criminals...nor do they have a reason to claim them. You already know that the Republicans would love to make that connection....(attaching these extremists to all American Blacks) you shouldn't be in the business of helping them.

Blacks can't be terrorists?

I do follow your point that this group wasn't the cream of the crop in terms of being well trained and effective. When Americans think of Terrorists, they often think of well trained, indoctrinated, disciplined, mission driven Al Qaeda operatives. (And not all Al Qaeda operatives are well educated... typically it is cell leaders and main plotters who tend to fall into that category... the foot soldiers who actually carry out attacks are often illiterate, unemployed, criminals or losers of some kind from their home Countries.) But the Al Qaeda brand isn't the only brand of terrorism. In fact, Al Qaeda now wants independent groups to carry out their own attacks.... so it's no surprise that some of these groups would lack the training and discipline of foreign trained Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda is not a cohesive group.... it's decentralized...and has become a source of encouragement for other independent actors around the World.

Domestic terrorists don't necessarily have the backgrounds that international terrorists do. That doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't willing or able to kill.

Yes, the more I read about this case... the more I notice how much of a joke these guys were in a sense. They didn't seem to understand the weapons that they wanted to use, etc. But then again, it's all about intent and their willingness to kill or carry out their crimes. That's exactly the point where law enforcement needs to catch them... before they can graduate to more sophisticated attacks. If they would have failed here... they would have gone back to the drawing board.

So you wouldn't convict? You wouldn't convict even though they:

#1. Conspired to carry out these attacks. (Conspiracy Charge).

#2. Attempted to procure and actually were successful in procuring the weapons...although under controlled conditions thank Goodness. (Weapons Charges of all sorts)

#3. Clearly demonstrated intent and willingness to carry out attacks.

#4. Were actually caught while planting what they thought were live bombs.

You would let them back out on the street?

People believe that if it's not 9/11 then it isn't really terrorism.

Reaching the point of causing explosions and actual casualties isn't necessary to violate the Terrorism laws or to trigger an investigation (and that's the way it should be). The laws were designed so that these clowns can be arrested before they are able to cause harm.

The Angry Independent said...

(Con't)

I have a feeling that you wouldn't feel the same about White supremacists plotting to bomb Black Churches... but who happened to have been caught before they could carry out their plot... because they were clumsy Hillbillies who made too many mistakes. I have a feeling that you wouldn't be in the mood to just let them go (if on a jury). You would be calling for their heads. You know it...and I know it. :)

Regarding money...

Have you heard of Jeff Fort and the El Rukn organization? Gangs and Terrorists often engage in other crimes (robbery, prostitution, drug activity, fraud, burglary, theft, etc) to support their larger terror activities. They also fund their activities by setting up non-profit organizations as fronts... diverting the money to other activities.

It's the same for several White domestic terror factions. The movement known as the 'Phineas Priests' or 'Phineas Priesthood' is a perfect example... they did bank robberies to fund their terror activities. It's not uncommon.

It is similar overseas. Terror groups have always funded their activities with other crimes... but it has become especially important over the last several years with governments freezing traditional bank accounts and other assets. Muslim extremists overseas will often rob, sell their services as mercenaries for warlords, or take hostages for ransom (popular in the Philippines and in North Africa). They also engage in piracy, human trafficking, and the drug trade (Poppy plant growing is the top industry in Afghanistan right now...supporting the Taliban and terrorism).

There are all sorts of ways for terrorists to make money to support what they are doing. It is unclear exactly what the New York group was involved in.... perhaps a combination of the crimes I mentioned above on the domestic side (petty crimes, drugs, fraud, etc).

If the government received a tip about these guys and failed to follow up...and something happened as a result of that negligence... folks would be up in arms. The FBI has been down that road (ignoring reports about strange men in this Country who wanted to learn how to fly airliners...but not how to land them). Those reports probably sounded silly to FBI management at the time... so they brushed off efforts by at least one...perhaps two agents who requested more resources to investigate. Instead...those agents were rebuffed...and told by their bosses to STFU. The FBI isn't playing that game anymore....and frankly...i'm glad they aren't.

Even with the FBI being more vigilant... they may not catch everything... (because you can't stop everything) but it at least shows that as an organization...they aren't completely asleep at the switch.

rikyrah said...

AI,

I didn't say Blacks couldn't be terrorists. I'm just saying this group nor the ones in Miami were this great threat to national security. It's straight up entrapment. And, if everything is supplied by the government, then how dangerous were they?

There ARE cells out there.
Cells that don't need government money.
Cells that have the educated folks willing to design bombs.
Cells that know where to get what they don't have and how to get it.

These guys were stupid wannabe clowns that had no means to get anything. Your local gangbanger was more dangerous.