Yes, Race Does Matter

I have mentioned the okcupid report before on this blog.... I even overshared about my own experiences with racial barriers (outright discrimination) in horrible world of dating- this was before I even knew about this report. See the post "White Men Only". The report validated my own experiences...and let me know that I wasn't crazy.

Going through the actual report from the original site was eye opening. Take a look for yourself.

The data on Black women was very interesting and raised a whole set of other questions about race, dating, Black women, etc.

Overall...the picture for Black men wasn't very good. I'm pretty much screwed (and not in the good way of course).

Black, Single, and Clueless

The following women = why I have had my current preferences for the past 20 years.

I didn't want to do this... Believe me, I really really didn't. I really don't care for topics pertaining to Black cultural nonsense. I would much rather write about Afghanistan, Iran, Health care, the economy, Democratic Senators announcing their retirements, my job search, my hopes for the coming year, etc...all topics where I have a Hell of a lot more interest.

I have writers block right now... and I'm also enjoying a break before my classes start again... i'm not really in blogging mode. However, I wrote a quite long and detailed commentary about the topic of the ABC/Washington Post story regarding single Black women... but later assigned it to the cutting room floor. I decided that I wouldn't post on the topic after all. Besides, the topic has been discussed and examined from just about every angle... particularly on great blogs like The Black Snob....where the discussion in the comments section was robust and had at least a little balance. But I made the mistake of strolling over to some of the Black Male Hatred blogs (those run by Black women that lump all Black men together), and the commentary was irrational and damn near unbelievable. Some of the nonsense I had to read 2 or 3 times to make sure I read it correctly. Needless to say... I allowed it to send me over the edge.

I don't want my blog to = negative material... so when possible I prefer to keep things upbeat. That's why I wanted to avoid the topic. So I won't post any of the commentary that I actually wrote... which was some pretty good stuff btw. I don't see the point of getting carpel tunnel, especially when I won't change the mind of a single person on this issue. Black women certainly aren't going to listen. I also didn't want to be accused of "attacking Black women", "throwing Black women under the Bus", "engaging in a 'piling on' against Black women", or any of the other things that you're accused of when you are critical of certain people. So instead of posting my commentary, I will post the videos that I was going to use with my text (in the order that I was going to use them). It will give you somewhat of an idea...a general picture of what I might have written or what general direction I went in. But the text had much more detail. I will include a few comments from readers of other blogs... because they really made some great points.

Just as a preface:

Disclaimer - I don't agree with everything in the following videos. But they provide some context and make good points. I agree with Paul Brunson on about 90% of the comments from his video clip. Also...Black women aren't a monolith... not all fit the picture painted by ABC. But a sizable number certainly do.... and I would say that half of "professional" Black women do to some degree (and half may be Conservative). Also... this post is not an endorsement of Steve Harvey. I'm not a huge fan of Harvey. ABC decided to put him in the segment... not me. Some of the videos have Rated R language. They aren't my videos... but they are still useful. My apologies in advance. Lastly, I will not allow comments for this post at all. End of Disclaimer.

Generally speaking, these are women who I would run from as fast as I could. Even if I could afford them, they would not be the kinds of women who I would pursue. There is something especially empty about these women. They commodify themselves, as well as men. It's almost as if they market themselves as items for sale. Everything in their world is thought of in the context of money and material things. Granted... most women (across race and culture) judge men based on money, career, title, etc.... It's part of the female DNA. It's a biological thing. That's why I have never approached a woman and won't be dating again until I am earning in the neighborhood of $50,000.00 a year (the amount of money required for a man to be considered viable in American society). Hope to earn that amount in my 40's... and maybe i'll start a family then. Right now i'm a Grad student who earns roughly half that amount (considered pathetic). But it seems to be more of an issue to some women. This is what I have noticed in my 36 years in this _____ed up world. And I have noticed that the modern Black culture especially (which I don't ascribe to, thankfully) is more identified with this sort of superficial mindset.

The gaping hole.... their emptiness is so vast that you almost miss it if you aren't paying attention. Notice how "Love", "Character" (of the man), "Values", ideas like the value of hard work, you know...things of substance... none of these things get much of a mention .... Hell, some of these items aren't mentioned at all in the entire segment. So in other words... it was what wasn't said.... it was what was missing, that actually spoke the loudest to me about these people. What the ____? I guess I was the only one who noticed.

But it begs the question.... are these women even aware of what a good man is? Are they even aware of the attributes to look for to identify an actual man? So, they dated thugs in their twenties.... and NOW they want an actual man. hmmm. Not the case for all....but certainly the case for many of these ladies. The segment also didn't mention children. I'm willing to bet my right arm that at least some of these women from the segment or from the Washington Post story have children. I personally would not be interested in someone with children...and I wouldn't date anyone who has dated shady men before...in other words...women who are with or have been with thugs (this says a lot about her character...her judgment ....her ability to make good decisions.). And here's another clue for the boneheads among us.... If you are looking for men in nightclubs (actual men)... you might not get very far. Try to find another setting (school, church, hobby group, trusted word of mouth, the coffee shop, the local park/dog park, private function, volunteer group, quality online service, grocery store...and make the first move/go for what you want). I, for one, have never been to any stupid nightclubs. Stop imitating the women from The Real Housewives series! That is not what good, educated men (family men) are looking for. There are a good number of well-to-do men, and playboys who will look for these kinds of women...just for a fling... just for a piece or for a trophy wife (if you live off of your looks.. God help you)...but good, decent family men will see right through you and will either pass you up, or use you for what you are willing to give him, until he can find a women who makes the grade as a potential wife. We don't like the b.s. (especially the nonsense on 'The Real Housewives'). We want to come home to a peaceful household at the end of the day. Home = the castle...even if it's just a modest Apt.

These are the same women who laughed at the nerdy Black boys in school....and teased them for the way they talked (this was the case for me)... meanwhile they chased the jocks, playboys, and gang bangers (yes... thugs, packaged for prison). By High School, I had realized that my preferences were different anyway.

I prefer, Asian, Latina, or White women (can be average looking) w/ degree who are more on the geek side...and have more of a socially conservative view. Someone who shares my values and who understands (and appreciates) the value of hard work...and appreciates the sweat that goes into earning a dollar. Yes...these women may be hard for me (a Black guy) to get largely because of my race...(thanks to the beautiful job that the so-called "Black community" has done in presenting a positive Black male image)...but i'll take my chances. Why put up with that kind of stress...when there is something better elsewhere that may allow me to have lower blood pressure, lol?

Somehow the value of hard work...an honest days work... appreciating the value of a dollar, putting things like Love, Loyalty, Character, Romance, etc....ahead of material & money has been lost in Black Culture over the past 20 years. These concepts used to be important... Go back to the 1950's and 60's... a Black man who worked in a factory...worked at the post office, or served in the military and took care of his family was just as loved and cherished as the Doctor or the business man... at least by his own family. Hell...some of these men were better men....better fathers. They were once the pillars of Black culture. Black women weren't always this way. Don't feed me that bullshit. Coretta Scott didn't marry Dr. King for money.... in fact, he didn't have much in the way of material wealth. There was no way she could have known what was in store..the road that they would travel. Dr. King wasn't even a household name in 1953 when he married Scott (at her parents house). He wasn't even nationally known. And when he died he didn't have a boatload of money. The same goes for many women of that time- there were many Coretta Scott's.

But today you have all sorts of nonsense going on.... $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, and $100,000 weddings...money that could be used for something else. (and if a man can't provide the Platinum wedding and the $500,000 home..he's not good enough).

Too good to talk to the letter carrier? Too good to talk to the Limo driver? Too good to talk to the security officer? Too good to talk to the school teacher? Too good to talk to the utility worker?

Modern Black culture has screwed up the brains of these women.... they want to live the lives of the Black celebs that they see on Television.... like BET (Black Exploitation Television) and the like; a subculture that is just as empty as they are. These are the kinds of women who I would tell to go to Hell (and would enjoy telling them).

I guess i'm more shocked at the idea that these women don't have a clue as to why they are in the situation they are in. Hopefully...one might get a clue from this blog. But would it do any good?.... probably not.

(No the above isn't from my actual commentary....just a preface to the videos. Yes...I wrote more than I wanted to...but my actual post was much longer.)





Paul Brunson



The 49th Car - Rated R. Clearly these women don't know about the 49th Car. They are never taught this as girls, unfortunately.

Examples of the 49th car are abundant... MLK = the 49th Car, Bill Gates = the 49th car, and numerous more moderate examples are around us all the time. I suspect (and hope) that I, The Angry Independent = the 49th car.

This video was done by a youtuber w/ a white wife who constantly has to deal with the backlash. I don't endorse his language.... and I don't agree with some of his points & comments. But his broader point is useful for this post.



49th Car, Part II


Comments from The Black Snob's blog (won't post screen names): All Great Points.

#1). You just hit the nail on the head. I keep talking about how so much of this dialogue goes back to gender roles. There's plenty of men who are out there, looking, and in alot of ways are mirror images of these women in terms of their circumstances. Yet the male gender role says that if a man is out there, he needs to figure out what he's doing wrong, make corrections, and keep trying. The female gender role doesn't really prescribe that sort of introspection and self-critique to the same extent that it does men. So then you get all these women, or at least a portrayal, who are basically just whining and not looking for ANY answers/solutions within.

I hope the culture at large starts to force women to figure out what they may be doing wrong if they find themselves unhappily single (not be confused with women who are singel adn cool with it.) It's been a solid 25 years of this and it got tired sometime around the Very Special Episode of Different Strokes.

#2). Until recently,(I'm ashamed to admit) I was beginning to think that I wasn't attractive enough to get a man. I was beginning to think that I was invisible to single men within my age group and with whom I share an educational background. I couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.

Now I see things in a different light. First, if the women in this video don't have mates then something else must be afoot because they are all beautiful and accomplished. (ding ding ding ding!) Second, I realize that maybe, deep down, I cherish my independence and freedom too much to want to share with anyone. I like who I am with all my quirks and I don't want to change. Why should I? Add to that, relationship people (you're the type who always speak in terms of "we") really annoy me. And married women who feel that the goal in life is to get a man marry them, just are not my type of people.

Now I don't feel bad about turning down the brother in accounts who smokes a pack a day, has bad teeth and 2 kids and 2 baby mamas.

This clip really gives me more to think about

#3). Perspective from a middle class black dude: Something about the women in the clip to me said "you need more people." The one with the green eyes who started off looking for a 6'5" dude is NOT representative of an avg. blk woman looking for a good blk man. She started off looking for a dude in the league and now that that didn't pan out, she's moving down the roster. The cheerleader with the Benz and the excessive extracurriculars also seemed like her lifestyle was very status-based. There was this whole black Sex and the City kind of vibe to the whole thing. Lots of champagne glasses clinking and fabulous designer lifestyles and such, but very little in the way of anything that would make a man more interested in being with any of them day in and day out and raising a family with them.

Besides that, They did this in Atlanta, which is a city whose culture is so flashy and surface-oriented, they should just rename it East Las Vegas.

#4). There are plenty of men looking to be taken care of. That goes for women as well. I am not talking about those people. I am not talking about dead beat men or gold digging women. I am talking about law abiding, socially adjusted men. And the point of the earlier post is to say ambition is relative. When does one get enough? At what point does a person become content. With more possessions and the pursuit of possessions come more headaches. Most men see this. It is not the acquisition of "things" that many men are put off by. It is the trouble you have to go through to gain and maintain them. At some point the means just don't justify the ends anymore.

I know plenty of brothers who choose to drive older model used cars. They could go on any BMW lot and drive off with a new luxury car if they wanted. But when you calculate the cost of the note (or lease payment), the increased insurance, and maintenance (getting it detailed every week, etc.) many just don't think it’s worth it. Is that a lack of ambition? Or is it financial intelligence? What if they have hobbies that are personally fulfilling they would rather put that money toward? Are they losers? What if they want to retire early? It’s kind of hard to do that if you are living at the top of your means for most of your professional life.

I thank God I have a wife that understands that I refuse to kill myself just to have a shiny new car, some overpriced brand name clothes, and the faux lifestyle of the wanna be rich and "successful". I thank God she doesn't think an overpriced handbag is in any way an indicator of personal or professional success. But I got lucky. I found a woman whose values match mine. Matching values and views of success between men and women are becoming more of the expectation now.

Instead of whining.... why not date men of other ethnic groups? I agree that Black men (in many ways) have failed. There may not be enough eligible Black men....(even if these Black women had realistic expectations). So why not date other men? Who says that Black men should be their only choice? That's crazy. One problem could be that men of other ethnic groups see some of the same problems. Hmmm Here, the above youtuber is going over the numbers from the recent online dating survey (which is a pretty revealing report). It examined dating patterns/online behavior and included the race of the participants. But even with that... I still support the idea of Black women broadening their horizons. Although I also understand that there are plenty of women who don't want to get married.

See another video with interview of book author looking into this subject.


--No Comments Please--

White Men Only

My dating life can be summed up in one word: sad. In fact, I don’t have a dating life. Currently I’m not dating anyone and I haven’t been on a date in several years. Confession: The Angry Independent has never had a girlfriend/relationship, never been kissed, and has never even asked a woman out…and I’m in my mid 30’s. Yes, I know…. Pathetic. I guess that means that I pretty much fall into the category of “loser”. Most men would have already blown their brains out by now. But that’s not an option for me (although some would probably disagree). This is all tied to my racial identity, my tendency to be a homebody, and my lack of resources. I’m also a little picky when it comes to the kinds of women who I would date.

I’m generally not attracted to Black women…physically, mentally or otherwise. I typically don’t have much in common with them. To be honest, I don’t think I could deal with most Black women…and I don’t have any interest in going down that road….although I don’t exclude the possibility of meeting and dating one. There are always exceptions. Excluding anyone based on race alone would be stupid on my part. I’m just emphasizing that if it happens….it would be more by accident than by any mission driven kind of effort. And i'm not saying that there aren't any great Black women out there... there definitely are. But they are few. And for whatever reason, I don't get along as well with Black women. I have written before about some of my interracial dating experiences and some of the issues that drove me in that direction.

And Black women generally aren’t attracted to me because I’ve never been arrested, I can hold down a steady job, won’t abuse them, am considered “nice”, and I hate ebonics. In other words, I don’t fit the image of what a “Black Man” is supposed to be….and I don’t act the way that the image says I am supposed to act. I’m just not considered “sexy” to them. I’m more James Taylor, Sharon Jones, Dave Matthews, Classic Motown, Rock & Jazz than modern R&B and Rap. I guess I don’t fit the mold. For some strange reason, certain women are attracted to violence, B.S., heartache, and irresponsible behavior. If you aren’t a meathead with “protective qualities” (meaning if you aren’t musclebound with tattoos and you haven’t been to prison) then you aren’t seen as authentic --as authentically Black or as a “real“ man -- and you just aren’t considered very attractive in a certain community. Black women are like social masochists in a way. I will never understand it. But it is what it is.

I have a whole series on this blog about the Black female subculture (yes it is distinct) and the kinds of men that they tend to be attracted to. Now of course not all Black women fall into that category… but I would say…from common sense, general observations and anecdotal evidence that at least a small majority between ages 20 & 40 probably fall into that group. Anyone who still doubts this phenomenon is in a serious state of denial.

That’s one side of the coin that I have to face. The other side is that I don’t tend to have it any easier with non-Black women. I tend to be more attracted to non-Black women, but they generally aren’t attracted to me. I typically don’t fit what they are looking for in terms of race and socio-economics. The financial part of that probably has a lot to do with it…. But that is strongly tied to race.

What am I getting at? How does a Black Man date when the options are so limited?

When dealing with non-Black women I often run into the dreaded “white men only” problem. These are primarily White, Asian, Hispanic, & East Indian women…but in a few cases I have encountered this from Black women - those few who I did have an interest in.

Back in the early 2000’s I was brave enough to post a profile on a few online dating services. I would use online services because they were convenient and because I don’t go to places such as nightclubs or bars to find dates. I’ve never set foot in one…and don’t plan to. I hate the nightclub culture. There’s nothing & no one in a nightclub that I want - period!

But what I typically found on the online services is that all the women who I would contact or would signal an interest in would almost uniformly mention in their profiles or would confirm in their responses that they were only interested in white men or that they could not/would not date a Black man. It got so bad that I eventually realized that if I wanted a chance to meet someone… I would have to remove any indication of my race from my profile. But leaving the race category blank only led to more aggravation. It only created a situation where I would waste time emailing someone back and forth (successfully) over a number of days, only to be stabbed in the chest when I would be forced to reveal my race, usually before a date or meeting.

“Oh, by the way… I just want to make sure you know that I’m Black”. “You do know that I’m a Black guy right?”

Typical response:

“Sorry… I don’t date Black guys”.

Or

“You seem nice, but my family would not approve of me dating a Black man. I will have to cancel for tomorrow night. Sorry for the confusion. Good luck in your search.”

Or

“No need to contact me again. I don’t deal with Black guys”.


You get the idea.

This became a constant problem. It became such a pain in the ass that I gave up dating only after one Summer & decided to concentrate on School/work. I didn’t want to deal with all the aggravation involved in the dating game.

And it goes back to why I don’t approach women and never have. It’s primarily because I have never believed that I was good enough to actually prevail and win the hunt so to speak… or to “get the girl” (at least not the women who interest me). “Not good enough” refers to not only being the wrong ethnicity, but it also refers to not having reached a level of socio-economic status that would allow me to compensate. This is why I’m single, have always been single, and will likely die single. Men have to be good at “the chase” and it’s something that I don’t even have the desire to do.

I most often got these responses from Asian women. I don’t know if this was because I interacted with more Asian women online (or don’t think I did) or because racial prejudice was more prevalent in that group….. who knows?

But what’s behind the “White Men Only” phenomenon? Few people are willing to do sociological studies on interracial dating to answer that kind of question because it may be too taboo, but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that race tends to be associated with socio-economics.

White, Hispanic, and especially Asian women (and yes a few Black women) see White men as a symbol of money, a symbol of success, and a symbol of stability & financial security (the primary thing that women seek and the way that men are measured by women). In all the important areas….White men seem to be the better choice…. It’s just natural selection in a way. White men are associated with all that’s good.
Black men, on the other hand, tend to be associated with all that’s bad. Black men tend to be associated with crime, irresponsibility, a lack of values, sexual aggressiveness, poor education, and as a whole being lower on the socio-economic ladder.

The heart of the story is that my dating options will always be limited. I have always seen my race almost as a disability when it comes to dating…and dating freedom. It’s like a prison for me. Add socio-economics to the mix and I feel even more handicapped by race. It‘s constraining. I always feel like I’m in sort of a racial Purgatory. I don’t feel at home or at peace in Black Culture. In fact, I don’t identify with Black Culture. The Culture annoys me (that’s the nice way of putting it). And I have never felt accepted or welcomed by any other group. I‘ve never been able to “fit in” with any particular Culture or group. I don’t have an attraction to Black women (generally speaking) and they don’t have any attraction to me because I don’t fit their image of “Black Manhood”. And White, Asian, and Hispanic women aren’t interested because I’m not White & I can’t compete with what a White man can provide for them (in terms of money, social status, a trophy, looks, as a family provider, as financial security, etc). There are Asian-American families who consider their daughters to be successful if they meet and marry a White guy (craziness!!!). They may not say that publicly…but that’s the general thinking process for some Asians.

That leaves me socially confined. I’ve always felt like a prisoner in my own skin.

When and if I try dating again in a few years (once my financial fortunes improve) my options are still going to be extremely limited. But then again… we are in the age of Obama and attitudes about race are supposedly changing… so I guess I’ll have to wait and see if there is some sort of improvement. Some people believe that Black is in fashion….I have heard and read comments to that effect. But I don’t really buy into that…and I don’t believe the rise of a political figure could really translate into an improvement in the realm of dating relationships… the level of tolerance needed to accept a Black President is different from the level of tolerance needed to actually bring someone home and have someone in your life who is of a different race. These are two different things.