Explaining the Public Option

Dick Durbin Needs to Hear FROM YOU

From DailyKos

PUBLIC OPTION--Dick Durbin Needs to Hear It First Thing Monday Morning
by Buck Power
Sun Aug 09, 2009 at 12:11:29 PM PDT

Sam Stein over at the Huffington Post details Senator Dick Durbin's appearance today on CNN's "State of the Union".

One of Barack Obama's chief allies in the United States Senate hinted on Sunday that a public insurance option could go by the wayside as Congress hammers out its health care legislation.

Appearing on CNN's "State of the Union," Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), one of the chamber's foremost progressives, said that while he supported a government-run option for insurance, he was "open" to alternatives.

"Just understand that, after we pass this bill -- and I hope we do -- in the Senate, it will go to conference committee," said Durbin. "We'll have a chance to work out all of our differences."

There can be no meaningful health care reform without a public option. Senator Durbin needs to be reminded of this. We need to flood his office with our views first thing monday morning. Very simple.



You can use Senator Durbin's online US Senate contact page:
http://durbin.senate.gov/...

Or (PREFERABLY!) you can give his office(s) a call:

WASHINGTON, D.C. Office
309 Hart Senate Building
Washington, DC 20510
9 a.m. to 6 p.m.
Phone: (202)224-2152
Fax: (202)228-0400

CHICAGO Office
230 South Dearborn Street
Suite 3892
Chicago, IL 60604
Hours: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Phone:(312) 353-4952
Fax: (312) 353-0150

SPRINGFIELD Office
525 South 8th Street
Springfield, IL 62703
Hours: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Phone: (217)492-4062
Fax: (217)492-4382

Senator Durbin is one of President Obama's strongest allies in the senate. Bottom line: we cannot afford to lose him. We must overwhelm him with responses to this, and remind him of his mission. It'll take just a few minutes of your time monday morning to give him a buzz!

Anyone with additional means of contacting the senator, please post it up and I will include it. I admit this was hastily compiled. I wish we could send him cartons of band-aids or something. Because "reform" without a public option is just that--a band aid on a gunshot wound!

I'm tired of these MOFOS thinking that we're going to just sit back and take it while they SELL US OUT and then tell us that we don't see what they're doing.

F--K THAT!

CALL CALL CALL!!!

Ten Things Obama Did Wrong on Health-Care Reform

From Crooks and Liars

Ten Things Obama Did Wrong on Health-Care Reform
By Susie Madrak
Saturday Aug 08, 2009 4:00pm

Helen's right, damn it. And look at Gibbs' deflection: "We've had a pretty good week." Sorry, Gibby, health-care reform is slowly slipping away. Don't just stand there.

Here are my thoughts on what the White House did wrong, in no particular order:

1) Obama outsourced the legislation to Congress instead of presenting it himself and working with them to write the details. He thought he'd outsmart the GOP by doing the opposite of the Clinton plan, but instead the bill is now lost on a sea of "compromise."

2) Bipartisanship. You just can't work with ideologues who refuse to operate in good faith. They're true believers, they will never give an inch. You'd think Obama would have picked up that little lesson while studying the Clinton era.

3) Blue Dogs. Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi need to come up with new strategies, since kissing their collective Blue Dog butts only inflates their already-swollen egos. Someone (Obama?) should lay down the law. Put them in the worst offices, cut their staff budgets until they cooperate. Lyndon Johnson wouldn't be holding their hands.

4) Single payer. It would have been so much easier if we'd started with it. Hell, we might even have won - and it's simple enough that most people would understand. But whatever.

5) He should have come out fighting for the public option earlier this year. Instead, he let the opponents (and the insurance companies) define the public perception. BIG rookie mistake.

Other 5 at link above, and I don't disagree with any of them.

Jonathan Alter has made more sense on healthcare than MANY official Democrats

Our poster NMP suggested this, and after reading it, I agree. Mr. Alter has been on Countdown this past week making better sense and giving a better argument for Healthcare Reform than 90 percent of the Democrats who have been on tv discussing this issue.
From Newsweek

Jonathan Alter
What’s Not to Like?
Reform? Why do we need health-care reform? Everything is just fine the way it is.
Jul 31, 2009

Go ahead, shoot me. I like the status quo on health care in the United States. I've got health insurance and I don't give a damn about the 47 million suckers who don't. Obama and Congress must be stopped. No bill! I'm better off the way things are.

I'm with that woman who wrote the president complaining about "socialized medicine" and added: "Now keep your hands off my Medicare." That's the spirit!

Why should I be entitled to the same insurance that members of Congress get? Blue Dogs need a lot of medical attention to treat their blueness. I'm just a regular guy and definitely deserve less.

I had cancer a few years ago. I like the fact that if I lose my job, I won't be able to get any insurance because of my illness. It reminds me of my homeowners' insurance, which gets canceled after a break-in. I like the choice I'd face if, God forbid, the cancer recurs—sell my house to pay for the hundreds of thousands of dollars in treatment, or die. That's what you call a "post-existing condition."

I like the absence of catastrophic insurance today. It meant that my health-insurance plan (one of the better ones, by the way) only covered about 75 percent of the cost of my cutting-edge treatment. That's as it should be—face cancer and shell out huge amounts of money at the same time. Nice.

I like the "lifetime limits" that many policies have today. Missed the fine print on that one, did you? It means that after you exceed a certain amount of reimbursement, you don't get anything more from the insurance company. That's fair.

Speaking of fair, it seems fair to me that cost-cutting bureaucrats at the insurance companies—not doctors—decide what's reimbursable. After all, the insurance companies know best.

Yes, the insurance company status quo rocks. I learned recently about something called the "loading fees" of insurance companies. That's how much of every health-care dollar gets spent by insurance companies on things other than the medical care—paperwork, marketing, profits, etc. According to a University of Minnesota study, up to 47 percent of all the money going into the health-insurance system is consumed in "loading fees." Even good insurance companies spend close to 30 percent on nonmedical stuff. Sweet.

The good news is that the $8,000 a year per family that Americans pay for their employer-based health insurance is heading up! According to the Council of Economic Advisers, it will hit $25,000 per family by 2025. The sourpusses who want health-care reform say that's "unsustainable." Au contraire.

And how could the supporters of these reform bills believe in anything as stupid as a "public option"? Do they really believe that the health-insurance cartel deserves a little competition to keep them honest? Back in the day, they had a word for competition. A bad word. They called it capitalism. FedEx versus the U.S. Postal Service, CNN versus PBS—just because it's government-backed doesn't mean you can't compete against it. If they believed in capitalism, the insurance companies would join the fray and compete.

Rest of this great article at link above.

Dennis Kucinich on Single Payer

Blacks, Hispanics Biggest Losers if Health Care Reform Flops

From Earl Ofari Hutchinson:

Blacks, Hispanics Biggest Losers if Health Care Reform Flops
New America Media, Commentary, Earl Ofari Hutchinson, Posted: Jul 22, 2009

Editor’s Note: A recent Washington Post/ABC News poll found that public support for President Barack Obama’s health care plan is decreasing. If the plan fails, blacks and Hispanics, who make up nearly half of the estimated 50 million Americans without health insurance, will be the most affected, says author and political analyst, Earl Ofari Hutchinson.

If President Barack Obama’s drive for some form of universal health care falters the biggest losers by far will be blacks and Hispanics.

Blacks and Hispanics make up nearly half of the estimated 50 million Americans who have no health care insurance, according to a report by the Commonwealth Fund. But the danger signs for reform are real. A Washington Post/ABC News poll found that public support for Obama’s plan is decreasing.

This is no surprise.

The instant Obama announced he would make health care reform his defining issue reform opponents kicked their attack into high gear. The two hit points are that it’s too costly and too intrusive – meaning that it will snatch from Americans the right to choose their own doctors and health plans and dump health care into the alleged slipshod, inefficient hands of government bureaucrats. The real fear of private insurers, pharmaceuticals and major medical practitioners is that they’ll have to treat millions of uninsured, unprofitable, largely unhealthy blacks and Hispanics.

The huge racial disparity in the number of uninsured has been a sticking point for every Democratic president since Harry Truman proposed the first national health care plan in the late 1940s. The number of blacks and Hispanics without a prayer of obtaining health care at any price has always been wildly disproportionate to that of whites – even poor whites. It has steadily gotten worse over the years.

The legions of black and Hispanic uninsured are far more likely than the one in four whites, who are uninsured to experience problems getting treatment at a hospital or clinic. This has devastating health and public policy consequences. A study by the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies found that they are far more likely than whites to suffer higher rates of catastrophic illness and disease, and are much less likely to obtain basic drugs, tests, preventive screenings and surgeries. They are more likely to recover slower from illness, and they die much younger.

Studies have found that when blacks and Hispanics do receive treatment, the care they receive is more likely to be substandard than that of whites. Reports indicate that even when blacks and Hispanics are enrolled in high quality health plans, the racial gap in the care and quality of medical treatment still remains low. 
 Private insurers routinely cherry pick the healthiest and most financially secure patients in order to bloat profits and hold down costs. American medical providers spend twice as much per patient than providers in countries with universal health care, and they provide lower quality for the grossly inflated dollars. Patients pay more in higher insurance premiums, co-payments, fees and other hidden health costs. At the same time, government medical insurance programs shell out more than public insurers in other countries with universal health care. 



Rest of article at link above.

GET TO CALLING.

Lobbyists spending 1.4M a DAY against any public option

From Icebergslim:

Wake Up!! Lobbyists spending 1.4M a DAY against any public option
by icebergslim
Mon Jul 06, 2009 at 05:08:33 AM PDT

This is cold water on many faces.

Not faces here, not faces who follow politics, but for everyone else.

If you are one of the millions with no health insurance, lost your job and can not afford COBRA payments (which is a joke), insured but your coverage is lacking and you are paying sky high premiums or have you gone bankrupt because you either have or don't have any insurance?

Now is not the time to sit on the sidelines.

Many that have insurance or feel comfortable that nothing will happen, think again. One of those stories can easily become a nightmare for you and your family.

The nation's largest insurers, hospitals and medical groups have hired more than 350 former government staff members and retired members of Congress in hopes of influencing their old bosses and colleagues, according to an analysis of lobbying disclosures and other records.

Nearly half of the insiders previously worked for the key committees and lawmakers, including Sens. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) and Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa), debating whether to adopt a public insurance option opposed by major industry groups. At least 10 others have been members of Congress, such as former House majority leaders Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.) and Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.), both of whom represent a New Jersey pharmaceutical firm.

The hirings are part of a record-breaking influence campaign by the health-care industry, which is spending more than $1.4 million a day on lobbying in the current fight, according to disclosure records. And even in a city where lobbying is a part of life, the scale of the effort has drawn attention. For example, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA) doubled its spending to nearly $7 million in the first quarter of 2009, followed by Pfizer, with more than $6 million.

Read more »

Ed Schultz on Grassley's ' No Public Option'

Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

From TPM:

Grassley's Government Health Insurance Hundreds Of Dollars A Month Cheaper Than Average Health Insurance
By Brian Beutler - June 24, 2009, 1:27PM

Earlier today, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA)--the powerful ranking member of the Senate Finance Committee--lashed out against a public health insurance option, and government involvement in health care generally.

Well, thanks to the government's involvement in health care, Grassley himself saves a pile of money insurance costs himself. In a letter to the Des Moines Register earlier this month, Grassley wrote, "I pay $356 a month for Blue Cross insurance coverage, a plan that is available to federal employees."

That, of course, is significantly cheaper than the average monthly cost of insurance for American families--and that's notwithstanding Grassley's age, which makes him a significantly riskier insuree than the average citizen. But Grassley opposes a public insurance option, which supporters say would lower the cost of insurance for all consumers.

He's a damn U.S. Senator and pays $356 for him AND his wife? My single sister pays more than that for her coverage.

The People Know What They Want - A PUBLIC OPTION IN HEALTHCARE

Hat tip: Prometheus 6:

From The NYTimes:

In Poll, Wide Support for Government-Run Health
By KEVIN SACK and MARJORIE CONNELLY
Published: June 20, 2009

Americans overwhelmingly support substantial changes to the health care system and are strongly behind one of the most contentious proposals Congress is considering, a government-run insurance plan to compete with private insurers, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll

The poll found that most Americans would be willing to pay higher taxes so everyone could have health insurance and that they said the government could do a better job of holding down health-care costs than the private sector.

Yet the survey also revealed considerable unease about the impact of heightened government involvement, on both the economy and the quality of the respondents’ own medical care. While 85 percent of respondents said the health care system needed to be fundamentally changed or completely rebuilt, 77 percent said they were very or somewhat satisfied with the quality of their own care.

That paradox was skillfully exploited by opponents of the last failed attempt at overhauling the health system, during former President Bill Clinton’s first term. Sixteen years later, it underscores the tricky task facing lawmakers and President Obama as they try to address the health system’s substantial problems without igniting fears that people could lose what they like.

Across a number of questions, the poll detected substantial support for a greater government role in health care, a position generally identified with the Democratic Party. When asked which party was more likely to improve health care, only 18 percent of respondents said the Republicans, compared with 57 percent who picked the Democrats. Even one of four Republicans said the Democrats would do better.

The national telephone survey, which was conducted from June 12 to 16, found that 72 percent of those questioned supported a government-administered insurance plan — something like Medicare for those under 65 — that would compete for customers with private insurers. Twenty percent said they were opposed.

Read more »

'Wake the F$*^ Up!'

From NMP:

health care reform is in real danger of failing and thus the Obama presidency failing and thus us failing. We really need to wake up! Democratic weasals like Baucus and Bayh are crawling out of their holes onto the set of shows like Morning Joe because they sense the President is weakened. You're going to see more and more conservative to moderate Democrats start chanting, "we can't deficit spend our way to health care reform." That chant is soon going to grow into chorus and eventually it's going to drown out calls for health care altogether. What are you going to whine about then?! If the President goes down, everything that we campaigned for goes down. We really need to get our priorities straight and our shit together before this all comes to an end.

Reminder of who to call!

PLEASE CALL the White House and let President Obama know that you don't want him to consider the "7-year trigger" for the public option. Let him know that you're ANGRY that he's doing this. Tell him it won't be REAL health care reform without an immediately available, strong, robust Medicare-like public option.

CALL the White House at: 202-456-1111 and E-MAIL them as well!

PLEASE CALL these Senators on the Senate Finance Committee today to demand a strong, robust affordable Medicare-like public option. Here's a list of talking points below:

Tell Senator [Name] that you DO NOT want the 7-year trigger for the public option and take it off the table, and that you want him to support an affordable strong, robust Medicare-like public option. We NEED a strong, robust Medicare-like public option NOW OPEN TO ALL AMERICANS AND AFFORDABLE, not more of the SAME broken system that's given us unaffordable premiums, little private insurance coverage, and rising co-pays. Also, DON'T TAX OUR EMPLOYER HEALTH BENEFITS. Instead, follow the proposal by President Obama to tax the wealthy above $250,000, eliminate the overpayments in Medicare Advantage, and put tax capital gains to help fund health care reform.

Read more »

Blue Dogs Backsliding On Health Care

From HuffingtonPost:

Conservative House Democrats agreed to a set of health care principles late last week that angered advocates of a overhaul of the health care system.

The Blue Dog Coalition issued a statement that said it would only support the public health care option as a fallback measure that would be triggered sometime down the road if private insurers don't meet a particular set of goals.

The backsliding took advocates of reform by surprise because 20 members of the coalition had previously signed a pledge expressing their support for a public option without a trigger. The statement was written and organized by the reform coalition Health Care for America Now (HCAN), which strongly opposes a trigger and sees it as an industry plot to strangle a public option in the crib.

...............................................................................................

The 20 Blue Dogs have taken a combined $6,849,273 from various segments of the health care industry, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.

Individually, they've taken a good chunk of change from the industry, but money isn't always the decisive factor. Murphy, in fact, has taken nearly $300,000 from health care interests but still reiterated his support for the public option with out a trigger. Here are the rest:

Jason Altmire: $405,279

Michael Arcuri: $103,547

Joe Baca: $159,250

Marion Berry: $536,917

Sanford Bishop: $356,496

Leonard Boswell: $304,680

Chris Carney: $167,664

Ben Chandler: $223,300

Jim Cooper: $894,414

Jane Harman: $292,694

Stephanie Herseth Sandlin: $323,924

Tim Holden: $386,278

Frank Kratovil: $86,556

Mike Ross: $833,670

Loretta Sanchez: $183,162

Adam Schiff: $380,708

Zach Space: $144,125

Charlie Wilson: $138,724

Mike Thompson: $631, 532 (His take from the health care industry, was second only to beer/wine/liquor business, which gave him $1,009,370)

Serious Healthcare Reform - Starting from Scratch

When the world was young, life was simple. Marcus Welby was our prototype physician. He seemed to be wise, practical, compassionate and infinitely knowledgeable. He could handle everything from a splinter in your foot to ovarian cancer and he could fix an internal abdominal hemorrhage from a motor vehicle crash. Well, things have changed since then. We have CT scanners, which can give us a three-dimensional picture of a heart. Using a scope, we can remove a gallbladder with three small incisions that together add up to less than two inches.

Over the last 20 to 30 years, health care has become extremely expensive. Americans now spend over $2.1 trillion in health care, more than $7,000 per individual. We must remember that we are spending all this money and 46 million Americans are still not covered. It boggles the mind that we can spend such a huge amount of money and millions of Americans are not covered. It's crazy.

Many polls have suggested that Americans want to change our healthcare system, but everyone seems to have trouble with the specifics. Let's step back and start from scratch. What do we want from our healthcare system? It seems to me that a system that is cost-effective is crucial. An article in this month's New Yorker reveals that in McAllen, Texas they are spending over $15,000 per resident and their healthcare is no better. The residents in McAllen are no healthier than the residents in Los Angeles or Detroit... or Asheville, for that matter. I think most Americans would agree that they want their insurance to travel with them, so portability is important. As we live longer and develop more and more medical diagnoses, Americans see more and more physicians. These physicians need to find a better way to communicate with each other in order to improve health care. We therefore need a system that is integrated. Patients should be able to choose their own physicians and their own hospitals, so independence is required. This basic right should be preserved. We want the best. The medical profession needs to figure out what the best practices are and give incentives to physicians to deliver the "best" of medical care. Currently, most physicians' offices are open from approximately nine in the morning until five in the evening. The majority of people work during that time frame. Americans should not have to take off from work in order to see their physicians. Physicians must be more accessible. There should be incentives to open early and stay open later. Group practices should be encouraged to be open Saturday and Sunday. When problems arise between a physician and a patient or the patient's family, there should be a way to resolve these conflicts without going to court every single time. We definitely need improved conflict resolution. There should be a way to find problems long before they become lawsuits, a better way for the medical profession to police itself or to be policed. Finally, every American needs to be covered.

The plans that are bouncing around Washington right now are hybrids of private and public health care. They seem to be more complex, rather than less. Why does delivering health care have to be so complex? Why don't we make it simpler instead of harder? The primary reason that we are all discussing health care is because the costs have become astronomical. Does insurance add value and decrease cost? I think the answer is no to both questions. A single-payer plan that negotiates drug costs and pays physicians and hospitals for keeping patients well would be the most cost-effective plan.

Finally, most plans being talked about today have some sort of "value added tax" in order to cover the 46 million Americans who are without insurance today. If we eliminate insurance from the basic plan (insurance adds approximately 30% to our healthcare costs) then we don't need a "value added tax." We already have enough money to cover everybody. There's no extra expense. There's no need for employers to be involved. Businesses would save money. This seems like a system in which business wins, the American people win and the health industry wins. Outstanding! Now that I've fixed health care, I can turn my attention back to Guantánamo Bay and what to do with the detainees.

Three great stories on recent political events

The public radio program On The Media looks at the stories behind the stories from the past week.

Three interesting stories:

1. How Cable News drowned out last weeks historic events

2. The overlooking of those who came before.... (I noticed this too). On The Media talks with Melissa Harris Lacewell.

3. The healthcare debate is louder and more important this time around.

The Texas Democratic Debate - The Verdict

Update: So, Who Won The Debate? Check The Results of the Daily Kos Poll.

*******************************************
My original Post-debate comments

As expected... the corporate media did its best to help Hillary Clinton tonight, but there was no doubt who came away looking better after this debate.

The bottom line is, Clinton needed a knockout victory in this debate to help halt Obama's momentum going into March 4th. But she came up short. In fact, she didn't even score a knockdown, let alone the knockout blow that she needed.

Obama, on the other hand, was polished tonight. He gave one of the best debate performances to date, and it came at a time when he really needed to look good, particularly for voters in Texas and Ohio. Going into the debate, Obama needed to hold his own. But he went above and beyond that tonight. Not only did he hold his ground, but he out maneuvered Clinton, and looked very Presidential in the process.
If by some miracle he wins Texas, his campaign staff will have to look back at this debate as a crucial moment.

Obama had a response for every attack and cheap shot that Clinton threw his way. She continued with the same tired "experience" argument... the same "day one" nonsense that has not worked for weeks. You would think her campaign handlers would have revamped her message by now. Obama was ready for everything she had...which, as it turns out, was nothing new.

Also, when asked about the delegate debacle, Hillary lied and claimed that she was "not worried about that"... that it was no big deal to her. Yet, at this very moment, her operatives are scheming, hoping to take the nomination by underhanded means (if they can). So it's obviously a big issue for her.

The best part?

When the crowd responded with Booos to Hillary Clinton's arrogant attack in which she claimed that Obama's theme of "Change You Can Believe In" really stood for "Change That You Can Xerox". That attack pertained to Obama's use of words that were previously used by Deval Patrick, the Governor of Massachusetts and a friend of Obama's....as well as being the Co-Chair of Obama's National Campaign. It was Patrick who suggested that Obama use the line.

The media attempted to help Clinton by grossly overplaying what was probably her only strong moment in the debate - when she offered conciliatory comments in the last 20 seconds of the program. Sheila Jackson Lee (yet another CBC Clinton supporter) and the boneheaded pundits from MSNBC and CNN claimed that this was a "glorious moment" for Clinton and suggested that this was where she won the debate. They claimed that the comments drew a standing ovation. WRONG! The standing ovation came because it was the end of the debate. STOP THE LYING AND HYPERBOLE! This is not journalism or first rate reporting. It's infotainment run amuck. All of the spin is enough to give you motion sickness.

Below is a live blog roundup of the debate, taken from the BaltimoreSun.com (Read from the bottom up)

LIVE BLOG: THE DEMOCRATIC DEBATE IN AUSTIN

By Lisa Anderson

GOOD EVENING!

The stakes couldn't be higher in Austin, Texas tonight as Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama go one-on-one in a Democratic presidential debate sponsored by CNN and airing at 7 PM (CST).

I am blogging for you from my post in New York City, while my colleagues in Austin cover the action on the ground in the Longhorn State.

The crucial, delegate-rich Texas and Ohio primaries are coming up on March 4 and new Washington Post-ABC News polls show the two candidates locked in a Texas tie, while Clinton of New York shows a narrow lead in Ohio over her Senate colleague from Illinois.

Tonight's debate represents their first face-off since their meeting in Hollywood on Jan. 31. They will have only one more planned televised debate--February 26 on MSNBC--before what are shaping up as very close contests in Texas and Ohio.

Clinton, who has lost the last 10 state primaries and caucuses to Obama, desperately needs to win, and win big. To do that, she must use this debate to convince voters that she truly is not only tough enough and experienced enough for the nation's top job, but diplomatic enough to overcome the polarizing image that dogs her.

Obama, who has been on an impressive roll, wants to keep that roll going through the next big contests and beyond. To do that, he must effectively counter Clinton's charges that "the best words in the world aren't enough unless you match them with action." Or, in Texas parlance, that he's all hat and no cattle. And, he must avoid getting lost in the verbal weeds when talking about policy.

Given what has transpired in the last three weeks, it will be interesting to see if the sarsaparilla sweetness that drenched the last encounter between these two will continue or if they are now locked and loaded for a showdown tonight.

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9:55 pm--LET'S AGREE THAT WE REALLY DO AGREE

While they may have been trying to draw more sharply the differences between them, Clinton and Obama Thursday night succeeded more in showcasing the similarities in their positions.

As hard as they tried to elbow each other, more often than not they ended up saying that they "agreed" with each other.

Given the fact that polls show them deadlocked in Texas and extremely close in Ohio--the next two big primaries on March 4--there seemed to be little in this debate that promised to significantly shift those numbers.

Neither candidate stumbled and both got off some good lines. Some of Clinton's best lines, in fact, were her last and, indeed, she got the very last word in the debate.

Before Texans and Ohioans vote, Obama and Clinton will have one more televised go at each other during the MSNBC debate next Tuesday.

Thank you for joining me tonight.

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9:45pm--ONE MORE QUESTION.......

What was the moment that tested you the most, the candidates are asked.

Obama notes he was raised by a single mom, made mistakes in his youth but learned to "take responsibility" not only for his own actions but how to help others. His cumulative experience as a community organizer and attorney,he said, is what helps him to lead and bring people togetrher.

Said Clinton, wryly, "Well I think everybody here knows" I've had some challenges in my life." The audience laughs. But, she said, nothing she has been through is as tough as some of the things she's seen, including badly wounded soldiers coming home from Iraq.."The hits I've taken in life are nothing compared to what goes on everyday" in the lives of people around the country.

No matter what happens, she said of herself and Obama, "We're going to be fine. We have strong support from our families and firends. I just hope we'll be able to say the same thing about the American people and that's what this election should be about."

Obama appeared to open his mouth to add something, but Campbell Brown abruptly ended the debate .

To his credit, Obama nonethless, graciously held Clinton's chair as she rose to leave. She smiled. After all, she had the last word.

And that was that.

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9: 36pm--MUM'S THE WORD

The subject is secrecy. Obama is asked by CNN's John King why he has not disclosed what earmarks he has proposed in the budget. Not true, Obama said. He brushed the question away with a promise that he'd get the info for King asap. "I've been consistently in favor of more disclosure about earmarks," he said, making sure they are "not done in the dark of night" and will push for that when he's president.

Clinton says she's going to get us back to "fiscal responsibility," and did we mention middle-class tax cuts, college affordability and universal healthcare? On those counts, she said, she's more than a match for anything McCain can throw at her.

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9:30pm--IS THE SURGE WORKING?

Surge or no surge, Clinton will begin withdrawing troops within 60 days of her inauguration and make the Iraqis get serious about carrying their own water.

Obama admits that violence has been reduced in Iraq since the surge began surging. "But, this is a tactical victory imposed upon a huge strategic blunder," he said. Moreover, he said, it will be easier for the candidate opposed to Iraq from the beginning to debate and draw a contrast with John McCain. The Arizona senator and presumptive GOP presidential nominee, Obama said, has indicated the U.S. may have troops in Iraq for 100 years.

Time for another commercial break.....

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9:22 pm--WHO'S MORE READY TO LEAD?

Clinton quickly assures the questioner that she's the one who's ready on Day One-- then insists on getting back to her healthcare answer which was so rudely interrupted.

Obama points out that Massachusetts, which has a universal healthcare plan, has had to exempt 20 percent of the uninsured in the state because they simply could not pay for insurance, despite the threat of fines.

Clinton says programs like Social Security and Medicaid would never have worked had everyone not been obliged to contribute. The same thing for universal healthcare, she said. "I want universal healthcare," she added, verbally stamping her feet.

Campbell Brown struggles to get them back to the leadership question.

Clinton launches into another litany of her accomplishments, including serving on the Senate Armed Services Committee. "Just this week," she pointed out, we had elections in Pakistan..change of government in Cuba, independence in Kosovo and our embassy in Serbia set on fire. "When you think about everything that is going to happen...I believe I am prepared and ready on Day One to be the commander in chief, to be the president...And that is what I'm putting forth to the voters."

'I wouldn't be running if I didn't think I was prepared to be commander in chief," Obama countered. He stresses that he will use the military wisely and harks back to Clinton's vote to authorize the war in Iraq.

By opposing the war, he said, "I believe I showed the judgment to be commander in chief and Sen. Clinton was wrong in her judgment." In fact, he basically said, he has shown the best judgment in almost everything. So there--again.

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9:09 pm--HEALTHCARE REDUX

Obama stresses that he and Clinton agree that everybody needs healthcare, they just want to get there in different ways. He says he knows that everyone wants healthcare, but not everyone can afford it and that's why he thinks mandatory insurance is not the way to go.

Clinton opens her mouth, raises her hand and clearly is dying to respond--but Campbell Brown cuts her off to go to commericial....If Clinton's smile gets any tighter she'll need the Jaws of Life.

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9:01 pm--"COPYCAT?"

Asked about the charge that he plagarized a speech from Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, Obama scoffed. "The notion that I stole the line from someone who is my national co-chair, who gave me the line, is silly," he said, saying the "silly season" has set in.

Clinton swooped in like a raptor . "If your candidacy is going to be about words, they should be your own words," she snapped Then, she came in for the kill, "Lifting passages from someone else's speeches isn't change you can believe in, it's Xeroxing," she said, to a chorus of boos.

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8:50 --THEY'RE BAAAACK...

John King asks them about the difference between their jabs at each other on the stump and c the cordiality on display so far tonight,
He asks Clinton if she things Obama is all hat and no cattle. She says she thinks the next president will have to be less hat and more cattle, without commenting directly on Obama's haberdashery or livestock.
However, she stresses "there are differences between our records and our experiences." She notes nastily that one of Obama's surrogates was tongue-tied recently when asked to name one of his accomplishments.

"I think actions do speak louder than words," Obama shot back and began listing all the great things he accomplished in his political career so far, both in the Illinois legislature and in the U.S. Senate.

"I do think there is a fundamental difference between us in how change comes about," he said, noting he's been endorsed by every major newspaper in the state of Texas. He said his rival has implied that "somehow they've been duped" and have yet to see the reality of things.

You need more than policy positions to govern, he said pointedly You also need to inspire.

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8:48--ENGLISH FOR ALL?

Both Obama and Clinton agree--yes again--that everyone should learn to speak English in America, although bilingual education is an important aid in that effort.
Obama also wants English speaking children to learn other languages.

So far, a bit sharp elbowing at the top, but mostly they seem to agree on just about everything--except who should be president....

Commercial Break...

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8:43 pm--ON THE (BORDER) FENCE

Clinton said the U. of Texas at Brownsville would wind up with part of its campus cut off by the proposed border fence with Texas, calling some of these plans absurd. "There may be some places where a physical barrier is appropriate" but as with so much the "Bush administration has gone off the deep end," she said.
"There is technology than can be used instead of a physical barrier," Clinton said, noting that the views of the people who live along the border should be heard.

Obama said, "Well, this is an area where Sen. Clinton and I almost totally agree." Clinton nodded her head and smiled slightly.

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8:35 pm--IMMIGRATION

Asked if the canadidates would stop raids on illegal immigrants--a huge issue in Texas--Clinton emphasized a more humane approach that keeps parents from being ripped suddenly from their children and that would establish a path to citizenship.
Obama agreed and added that it is "absolutely critical" that we tone down the rhetoric in the immigration debate that leads to discrimination. He also wants to institute comprehensive reform that cracks down on employers who hire undocumented workers but doesn't make the path to legal citizenship so expensive and difficult that people are discouraged from trying.

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8:25 pm--ECONOMICS 101--AGAIN

Obama said he and Clinton agree on many economic issues, the question is "how to get it done?"

A priority must be to overcome the influence of special interests, he said, noting that's an area where he thought he and Clinton slightly diverge.
Clinton also agreed that they agree on a number of things, including adjusting the tax code to help the middle class. Clinton launched into a litany of all the other things she would do, such as creating new "green jobs," put people to work rebuilding the infrastructure and "end George Bush's war on science."
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8:15 pm--LIFE POST-FIDEL

Clinton says she's ready to work with a new Cuban government and "make it very clear if Cuba moves toward democracy and freedom for its people" the U.S. will work with them.

Obama said he's ready to meet with the next leader of Cuba--with preparation and an agenda--saying the US should talk not just with its friends. This is where he got into trouble on another occasion, when Hillary jumped him, insinuating he was naive for saying he would talk to any leader without condition.
This time he seemed to side-step that, but Clinton wouldn't let him off the hook that easily. "There has been this difference between us about when the president should offer a meeting, without conditions....," she said, stressing that while the unilateral arrogance of the Bush administration is over, prudence is also in order.
Obama reiterated that "preparation is important," but said the president must take a more active role in diplomacy than in the past.
So there.

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8:03 pm--AND THEY'RE OFF

Obama won the coin toss and opted to go second with his opening statement, so Clinton has begun with a chat about her happy memories of the Longhorn State, about how Rep. Barbara Jordan and Gov. Ann Richards were such inspirations to her. Then she launched into how she has pioneered health care for children and families and will continue to do that in the White House. She heartily invited the people of Texas and Ohio to help her "continue to make a difference" for Americans.

Obama, in his turn, assured the audience that he and Clinton were friends before this campaign and will be friends when it's over. Then he talked about how he has encountered families whose mortgages have doubled, people who work two jobs and can't afford health care, communities devastated by jobs shipped overseas. And families whose loved ones have been lost in "a war I believe never should have been authorized." Zing into Clinton, who smiled tightly but looked taken aback.
"Washington is a place where good ideas go to die," Obama said, because "too many politicians are interested in scoring political points rather than" resolving differences to get things done.

So, the gloves are off from the get-go tonight.