Saturday, December 29, 2007

Where are the Gun Rights, Second Amendment People With THIS Case?

Originally saw this case on Prometheus 6.

A commentary at Black America Web opens with this:

A bunch of white guys show up at your house after 11 p.m., cursing, calling your 20-year-old son the N-word and threatening to kill him. You take your .32 Beretta, go outside and order the mob off your property.

Instead of leaving, one of the white guys slaps the gun in defiance. What do you do?

John H. White, a resident of Riverhead, N.Y., said he knew what he had to do. On Aug. 9, 2006, White found himself and his son Aaron faced with precisely the scenario described above. Daniel Cicciaro, 17 years old, was the white kid who slapped the gun in White’s hand. White shot Cicciaro in the face, fatally wounding him.

Three days before Christmas, a jury of 11 whites and one black in Suffolk County, N.Y., found White guilty of second-degree manslaughter.

You read right. They come onto his property; threaten his child. Don't leave after KNOWING that there is a gun. One of them gets killed, and JOHN WHITE is the one who was found guilty?



The man in Texas kills 2 who weren't even breaking into HIS house, but his NEIGHBOR'S house...not charged.

This Black man is on HIS property, protecting HIS child, from a White mob spewing racial epithets at him....and he's been found GUILTY?

WHAT THE #*$&?

Where the hell is the National Rifle Association?
Where the hell are all those Second Amendment fanatics?
Where the hell are all those Property Rights fanatics?

Is anyone going to sit here and tell me that a WHITE MAN...
if FIVE BLACK GUYS showed up at his house...
and after you've told them about the gun, they don't go away and you shoot them would ACTUALLY BE CHARGED?

Show me the case.

And, where the hell are our ' so-called' LEADERS?


The Angry Independent said...

The FN covered this a few weeks ago.

I have to disagree with you on this Rikyrah. Sorry :). The law is pretty clear regarding right and wrong in cases like this.

I don't think race was a huge issue in the Court case.... although it may have been an issue regarding the incident itself. FN actually provided more information that suggests race may have been an issue in the conflict leading up to the shooting. Perhaps that is my conservative side creeping in. I know all about racial disparity in the justice system, but I am not convinced of that in this case.

I am skeptical about jumping on the race bandwagon, and I definitely don't do so with every incident that hits the news. Too many Black folks tend to have a knee jerk reaction when it comes to high profile cases like this one.

I believe the court probably came to the right verdict in this case.

In order to claim self defense in this case, especially when a gun is used and a fatality is involved, the homeowner generally must #1. Be inside of his home. #2. The offender(s) should be attempting to break in/invade the home, or must force their way in once the door is answered. #3. Once the suspect is inside he has to be threatening enough that the homeowner is afraid for his life or the lives of his family members or guests, and he must act in the spirit of protecting himself or his family in response to a real threat of death or serious bodily injury by the suspect(s).

The above was not the case in this particular situation. Generally, once you set foot outside of your home, all bets are off. The proper thing for a homeowner to do in that situation would be to call police to have the nuisance removed, and/or have the suspects charged with making threats and to inform them- in the presence of police- not to return (so that trespassing charges could be filed the next time). In addition to that, they could have sought an order of protection.

Stepping outside of your home and using deadly force,...force that goes well beyond the threat, has generally never been acceptable in most States. This IS NOT considered "self defense".

I know the case seems annoying though. Cases like this with a Black person on one side and a white person on the other always stirs emotions.

Now the Texas situation was a fiasco. It would be hard for a jury to convict in that case...

I agree that justice is often uneven. But you have to remember that these situations are taking place under different circumstances, in different locations, often with different laws and different pressures on Prosecutors, and with different juries/State court systems. With disparate legal systems from State to State, you are going to get uneven justice.

Usually these cases are not the same...although they may look like the same thing to most. There are different facts and circumstances from case to case.

Btw, do you have a link to an article about the verdict in the Texas case? I'd like to take a look.

rikyrah said...

There was no verdict in Texas, because he wasn't charged.

AI, I guess I'm going to jail too, because I'm not about to let anyone up in my house to hurt me and mine. I'm taking them out.

And, you can't convince me...same instance...reverse the races that the man would have even been charged, let alone convicted.

rikyrah said...

And, look at this man's age, AI. White mobs isn't something in his history books; I bet he lived that.

The Angry Independent said...

Rikyrah wrote:

"AI, I guess I'm going to jail too, because I'm not about to let anyone up in my house to hurt me and mine. I'm taking them out.

And, you can't convince me...same instance...reverse the races that the man would have even been charged, let alone convicted."


This is the sticking point... you mentioned that you wouldn't let anyone "in" your house to do you harm.

From what I understand...the hoodlums were not in Mr. Whites House. They were outside. This makes all the difference in the world according to the law and the courts.

Remember the case of the 3 thugs in California...who invaded a mans home, brutalized a child, etc... and 2 of the suspects were shot dead by the homeowner... Remember how I was 120% behind that homeowner?

These are not cookie cutter cases... each has its own set of circumstances.

If Mr. White and his son were minding their own business and a mob forced their way into the house, and Mr. White was in fear of his life....then that would be a different story. It would have been a justified shooting.

They should have called Police...

Now regarding your point about what would happen if the races were reversed... I don't know. Sure, race is often a factor in these situations. However, the impact of race is hard to measure in any particular case.

You may be right... A White (esp. wealthy) homeowner in an upscale neighborhood probably would not have faced the same charges...and would have gotten more sympathy from the court. He may not have been charged at all... In the world that we live in, that is not beyond the realm of possibility... you and I both have seen the differences in how victims/suspects are treated based on socio-economics, etc.

But I am making a point from the standpoint of how Law Enforcement and the courts look at these cases based on the generally accepted laws regarding self defense, "the Castle Doctrine", etc.

Here is a similar case that took place in St. Louis recently.

Mother defends son from mob

Charges filed against mother who shot kids outside of her home

The Angry Independent said...

See Video Report…the issue of “self defense“ is discussed

Michael Ejercito said...

Who was the prosecutor in this case?

The prosecutor is a traitor to America, and we all know what traitors deserve.